DAISY GARY
Interview Transcript, Daisy Gary Interview, June 18, 2006
Detroit Journeys: Migrations Series
INTERVIEW TRANSCRIPT – DAISY GARY
Interviewee: Daisy Gary
DOB: June 19, 1915
POB: Bradley, Arkansas
Interviewer: Danielle Washington (her great granddaughter)
Interview Date: March 14, 2006
Location: Home of Ms. Gary in Detroit, MI
Interview No.: 03.14.06-DG
(audio digital file, approximate total length in minutes 55:44)
Transcription by Nathan Katzin
Subject Headings: Migration to Detroit; Bradley, Arkansas
Summary: Marygrove College student Danielle Washington interviews her great-grandmother, Daisy Gary, about her experiences moving to Detroit. Daisy Gary was born in Arkansas, later moved to Houston, Texas, and finally arrived in Detroit in 1945. Gary then details her life since the migration. She is 90 years old at the time of the interview.
Example of proper citation/ attribution: Washington, D. (Interviewer) & Gary, D. (Interviewee). (2016) Daisy Gary: Detroit Journeys [Interview transcript]. Retrieved from Detroit Journeys Oral History Collection at CDAC: Center for Detroit Culture and Arts: https://www.detroitartsculture.org
Daisy Gary Interview Transcription
Comments: Italicized text is interviewer. Counter index corresponds to track times when loaded into iTunes.
00.00
Interviewer: This is Danielle Washington, here with Daisy Gary, on Euclid Street on Tuesday, March 14th. And it’s okay that we tape record it. We already went over that form right? And she said that it’s okay that we tape record it? Okay. Of course I’ve gotta always say that. Okay Granny, where were you born?
Bradley, Arkansas.
Interviewer: Bradley, Arkansas? Okay, what date?
Hmhm. Sixth month, 19th day, 1915.
Interviewer: 9 Sixth month…so that’s June…
Sixth month.
Interviewer: June 9th-
19th, 1915.
Interviewer: 1915! That’s a long time ago.
Hmhm.
Interviewer: So you’re ninety now. How old were you when you moved to Detroit?
I would say about, hmmmm… about fifty.
Interviewer: You was fifteen.
Fifty.
Interviewer: Fifty!
When I moved here. I moved here in ’45.
Interviewer: So you said, Arkansas.
I stayed in Arkansas, stayed in Arkansas until ’38, then I went to Houston, Texas and stayed with my sister and brother.
Interviewer: Why’d you move?
Me and my husband separated.
Interviewer: Aww…
Uhuh, and I went down there and stayed with them.
Interviewer: So what was it like in Arkansas?
It was beautiful.
Interviewer: It was?
Hmhm.
Interviewer: You had all your family stayed there?
Uhuh.
Interviewer: And that’s where you met your husband.
Uh uh.
Interviewer: Did you like it?
Un uh
Interviewer: You didn’t like it in Arkansas?
I mean, I liked Arkansas, but you know, after we separated well I just you know left. I had never been out of town, just always stayed in the ya know in the country all my life. This is the first time I ever been out of town.
Interviewer: So what did you do in Arkansas?
What did I do? I worked in the field. Chopped cotton.
Interviewer: You picked cotton?
Uhuh.
Interviewer: Really?
Shucked corn. Stacked peanuts.
Interviewer: Was there horses and all-
Oh yeah. I used to drive. My daddy’d be in the field whipping, whack a horse and I’d follow him up and down the road we’d be plantin ‘n plowin the garden- field, you know to pick cotton and corn, stuff like that.
Interviewer: Was it all black people where you stay?
No there was some white ones there.
Interviewer: What was that like?
(groan) They was kind of, you know, off the wall.
02.35
Interviewer: (laughs) What did they do?
Oh well you…they call you know they called me a nigger…Mr., that Mr. this that, you know the stuff, they- and my daddy, you see what color he is.
Interviewer: He was light.
My daddy was white.
Interviewer: Oh!
His daddy was white, my m- my granddaddy was white and my grandmother’s a Cherokee Indian.
Interviewer: Oh, so your dad was white. What was your ma?
She’s an, a Geechee.
Interviewer: Geechee?
Geechee.
Interviewer: What’s that?
That’s the in-between negroes and hmmm…I tell you cause she stayed near Louisiana.
Interviewer: So she was Italian and black,
Hmhm.
Interviewer: And your dad was Indian and white.
Hmmhm, See that’s my mother right there.
Interviewer: Oh, your mamas kind of dark,
Yeah. She was.
Interviewer: And they stayed, they were married, your daddy and your mama?
Oh yeah.
Interviewer: How many brothers and sisters did you?
I had six brothers and one sister.
Interviewer: Were you the baby?
No, no, I was one next to the baby.
Interviewer: That’s good, so y’all all grew up on the farm.
Oh yeah.
Interviewer: Y’all have to tend to the chicken…
Chickens, cows and hogs…horses. Feedin ‘em-
Interviewer: Y’all went to school?
Oh yeah. Oh yeah.
Interviewer: It was just all black kids?
Had to walk about ten- yeah, all black- ‘was about five or six miles had to walk to school.
Interviewer: You had to walk?
Hmhm.
Interviewer: Every day. In the cold…
In the cold, rain, sleet and snow. (laughs)
Interviewer: That’s terrible.
Yeah.
Interviewer: What else did you do at Arkansas?
In Arkansas? Well, I went to school, and after I went to school I played football and I played basketball, and I played…you know for batting the ball.
Interviewer: Baseball.
Uhuh.
4:45
Interviewer: You played football- with the boys?
Hmhm. Yeah. See my sister she never played with me and I always followed the boys. See my mother she raised two boys beside her, her kids. And I would followed, where every where they go, I would follow them. Because my sister, she would play a little while and then she would go back in the house.
Interviewer: Your sister was- How old was your sister? How far apart were you and your sister?
She as two years older. She was two years older than me.
Interviewer: It was all boys.
All boys.
Interviewer: Where’d you meet your husband at?
In Arkansas.
Interviewer: In school?
Uhuh.
Interviewer: Oh, he went to the same school as you?
No, he went to the different school. He stayed about ten or twelve miles from where I stayed at.
Interviewer: How old were you when you got married?
Me? Sixteen.
Interviewer: You got married at sixteen. Why so young?
I don’t know. (laughs) I got married at sixteen, my oldest son was born when I was eighteen.
Interviewer: Oh my goodness.
Hmhm.
Interviewer: Did you…How long were y’all married?
I was married ten years.
Interviewer: And then you left?
Hmm?
Interviewer: And then you left and you went to Houston to stay with your sister?
He got to be mean and misusing me and beating up on the kids and I couldn’t stand that. I could stand him misusing me but not my kids. I was about, uhuh, I got to go. I said, now lord, you gave me these three boys and I got to go. Cause if I don’t somebody gonna get killed. Me or him, one. Mhmm. Yup, so I left.
Interviewer: But you don’t miss your family or nothing back there. Your brothers still stay in Arkansas?
No, two- one of my brothers, my second brother is still there. But Harvey, he stayed in Houston, Texas and Harvey T. he stayed and he had moved to, he went in the Navy. So he was in the Navy.
Interviewer: What was it like in Houston?
It was beautiful. Hmhm. I enjoyed it.
Interviewer: Where did you work at?
In the laundry.
Interviewer: At the laundry?
Mmhmm.
Interviewer: Oh, ok.
Yeah I work in the laundry. Then in the shipyard.
Interviewer: What did you do in the shipyard?
On the dry-dock. Where they would repair the ships that had been in the Army and all that stuff. Then we had to clean it. After they get through fixing it, then the- the one like me would clean it up, would mop it you know would wash the walls and all that stuff.
Interviewer: Were they racist?
Oh yeah.
Interviewer: Was it real bad?
Oh yeah.
Interviewer: What would they do?
They’d pick on you. You know, an say how slack things do to you know- get out the way, nigger this nigger that and all that stuff…But see I didn’t pay ‘em no attention. Cause see I know me. I was one of them mean peoples. I said don’t say nothin, I got three babies I got to take care. I said I can’t get into no trouble. So these- standing, walking by you they would push your legs in and everything. I’d just step aside and let them go on by. So one day I told them, I said listen, I know you’re racist, but I said honey I’m gonna tell you something. If you keep pushing me, I’m gonna push you back. But I ain’t push back with the backhand, I’m gonna cut you from here to here. Cause I tell you, I kept my knife in my pocket, just like I do now. Mmmhm. Mmhm.
Interviewer: Did they leave you alone? Was it a man or it was a woman?
Both kinds. Mens and womens…would pick on us, the colored peoples.
08.40
Interviewer: So who did you tell you were gonna cut?
It was a white guy!
Interviewer: What did he say?
Nothing. “You mean…” I said uh-huh, you keep on messing with you see what I’m gonna do with you.
Interviewer: And he left you alone?
Oh he left me alone. But he would walk by you know and roll his eyes, and all that stuff and everything. I said you can do anything you wanna do, but keep your hands to yourself.
Interviewer: So what did you dad say when you were, you know, when y’all were growing up. Cause he looked like a white man. Did they always pick with him?
No. See down there. See my daddy, he was a one white guy had a drugstore, and that was his brother. And they looked like twins. And the farm that my daddy was on, it was his farm. And he said, this is your farm, but don’t tell nobody, to the other people is you I give it to you. Racist like that…you stay right here as long as you wanna stay. You don’t gotta pay nothing. Just work this farm. Rent it out, or whatever you wanna do. So whatever they, he go into town, they ain’t never called my daddy nigger or boy- called him Mr. Moses. Cause when he go into town he had a .38 and a .45 on each side. He had a belt on. He didn’t have it in the belt, he had it hanging outside.
10.25
Interviewer: And they wouldn’t do anything.
They didn’t bother him. They called him Mr. Moses. Didn’t call him George or nigger or boy- all that stuff. Uh-uh. Nope. Called my daddy could –
Interviewer: He went into town with your mother? Would he take your mother to town?
Oh yeah. Oh yeah.
Interviewer: And they wouldn’t say anything?
Wouldn’t say nothing.
Interviewer: What about y’all. Did they take y’all with them?
Yep. We would go to town. We would go to town once a week, and that’s on Saturdays.
Interviewer: What did y’all do on Saturday? Why Saturday?
The big thing they had a show, so you know how you went down there, the Negroes go in the back and the rest of them all goes in the back. We’d go in the back, you sit down there and eat, go in there in the show- they had a different section, the colored section like on the bus. All the colored go back in the back and the white sat in the front. And so same with it at the show and same when we went to the restaurant.
Interviewer: So y’all went to the show and to the restaurant on Saturday?
On Saturdays.
Interviewer: Would y’all would sit in the back?
Oh yeah.
Interviewer: He would sit in the back too?
Oh yeah, he would sit back with us.
Interviewer: Would they say anything to you?
No, no. Mmm mm. No. Mmmm mmm.
Interviewer: That’s strange. How old were you when you moved to Texas?
11.45
When I moved to Texas? I was in my early twenties. Mmhmm, yup…about twenty-five.
Interviewer: You already had all your kids?
Oh yeah.
Interviewer: Did you get married again?
Hmmhmm. Not ‘til I came here.
Interviewer: You got married again when you came here.
Uh-huh. Mmhhhm. Me and their daddy was separated twenty years before I married again.
Interviewer: Really?
Uh-huh. Cause I couldn’t stand. Their daddy mistreated them and I couldn’t stand nobody else to mistreat ‘em so I stayed by myself for twenty years and then I married again. And he started acting stupid and I was staying right here. I said, you see what the thing that (?) I said baby you hit it. Cause I ain’t going no place. I got no (?) to cry, now to die for you. I stayed with my husband because I had three babies, thought maybe he would change. But now you can goodbye. He left them back in Little Rock and that’s where he died at.
Interviewer: That’s where your second husband died at?
Hmmhm. And my (?) when to California and that’s where he die at.
Interviewer: You outlived all your husbands. What about your kids. I mean not your kids, your brothers and sisters?
All my brothers and sisters had passed when I came here. I had one sister and one brother, all the rest of them had passed.
Interviewer: What made you come to Detroit?
My baby brother, he had just got out the army and he wrote me to come with- we was just like that when we was kids at home and he kept begging me to come up here, to come up here, come up here. So I came on up here and that’s why I’m in Detroit. Otherwise I wouldn’t have been up here. Mmhm.
Interviewer: Compared to the other places you’ve been, did you like Detroit better or you like it-
I liked it better in one instance I did. But otherwise, other places I went to, it was still racial you know.
Interviewer: Uh-huh.
Mmmhm.
Interviewer: There were racists up here.
No, not at the place that I was working at, no.
Interviewer: Where were you working?
I was working at laundries.
Interviewer: You were working on the Laundromat up here?
Working at laundries and I worked in a restaurant.
Interviewer: Up here?
Mmhm.Yep. I worked in a laundry in the daytime. In the evening I worked in a restaurant. Enough to keep my kids with clothes and a place to stay. I had to work two jobs. I wouldn’t make very much (?) in the laundry.
Interviewer: So when you got off of one you’d go to the other?
Mmm?
Interviewer: When you got off of work at the laundry?
I’d go to the- I’d come home and fix them something to eat and go to work in the laundry, I mean in the restaurant. Got to work by bus. I’d take three or four hours, mostly I’d done- help clean the kitchen up after everybody leave I ‘d go mop the kitchen wash the dishes you know and stuff like that.
Interviewer: What’d you do at the laundry?
14.42
I worked the press. Press operator.
Interviewer: Oh. So whose clothes were y’all washing?
Everybody’s. Army clothes. Nurse’s clothes. Doctor’s clothes.
Interviewer: Oh, it was like a cleaners.
Yeah.
Interviewer: Okay, so they’d just drop their clothes off and you’d press them and wash them.
They’d wash them- the machines washed them and there is a big bag, a big tree like that and about like that, they brought all the army clothes. I did them, the shirts, pants, and the caps, and the dresses, baby clothes. The most I did was kid’s clothes and the hospital clothes and the army clothes.
Interviewer: So did you ever go back and visit?
Back to- Yeah. I would go home every year for my mother and father living.
Interviewer: Really?
Yeah, I would go home every year as long when they was living. I sure would.
Interviewer: So what happened to the farm?
It’s down there. Last time I was down there it was, but most places down there now, they don’t have no cotton and corn. Most is rice and wheat now.
Interviewer: That’s in Gary, Arkansas?
That’s in Arkansas.
Interviewer: What part of Arkansas?
Bradley.
Interviewer: Bradley, Arkansas. So who has the farm now?
I don’t know who got it now because after see my dad passed then his brother had passed a long time before he was, so it went back to the state I imagine.
Interviewer: He didn’t have a will? Or he didn’t have a-
My daddy didn’t have one. I guess he had one cause he had kids you know and a wife.
Interviewer: So your cousins were white?
Mmmhm. Yeah.
Interviewer: Did you keep up with them?
No, not too much. When I see them in town I wave at them and they wave back and that’s it.
Interviewer: Really?
Must have been the color of my skin, you know (laughs) and I’m with them white folks. To me, I don’t know- I never liked no…I don’t, you said white people, I don’t, didn’t hate them, but they always did look on the colored person like they’s dirt. Some of them you do and some of them it’s nice.
Interviewer: Do you still feel like they look at people like that?
Mmhmm…yup.
Interviewer: Crazy…wow. Keep your distance from white people.
Oh yeah. I sure would. (laughter)
Interviewer: Besides the man speaking to you, you were in Houston and he was bumping you. You told him you were gonna cut him in Houston, right? Were kids mean in Arkansas when you were a kid?
When I was a kid? Uh-huh.
Interviewer: What would they do?
They would pick on you. All this stuff about you. And see…three white mens came to my daddy’s house to stay because they were trying to buy some land. They sat at the table and eat with us and they slept in the same room that my brother slept in and they was very nice. And after one of the boys got up you know in age and everything, and he one day was downtown and I said, hi Charlie. He said, Mr. Charlie. I said Mr. pile of slop. You sit at my daddy’s table and eat my daddy’s food and sleep in the same room my brothers with me… told him Mr. I said you better go jump in the lake, I said I ain’t Mr. nobody. And he was younger than I was then.
Interviewer: Really?
Uh-huh. Mr. Charlie. I thought- Mr. nothing. Charlie, in town I said, “Hi Charlie,” and keep on going. You know one thing, he was evil (?), I would say go ahead and say anything you wanna say. Charlie. That’s your name. Charlie.
Interviewer: You got any other stories like that? Of people messing with you?
Yeah. When I came here and working in the laundry. One of the white guys, he owned the laundry. And ah, his name was James. He started, you know, throwing out hints and slang, you know stuff like that. He already was- one lady worked in the office, she was colored. That was his lady. And so one day, I was getting ready to come home and then he said, “I wanna talk to you.” I said, “About what?” He said, “About you being my lady.” I said, “Me?” I said, “You got to be kidding.” He said, “What you mean?” I said, “The very first time you call me a nigger I gunna cut your throat. I said, “You stay your distance and I stay mine.” And you know he kept on hounding me and throwing out different slang you know and trying- they tell that I wasn’t doing the work and the blah, blah, blah, blah- and I said, “Okay, that’s alright too.” I said, “That’s alright too.” So one day I pinched my card and I didn’t go back.
And he called me, “What happened?” I said, “What you putting down-“ I said, “I don’t’ pick it up. I don’t want no white man saying nothing to me, good morning, good evening, and goodbye. And I’m working for you. You’se my boss and that’s it. Not cause I don’t want no parts of you for my boyfriend.” I said, “No, I don’t want that.” I said, “You stay your distance and I stay mine.” “Will you please come back to work?” Because- the press that I was working on where I take like the lil’ kid’s clothes, the baby dresses, the pants and the shirts and things for babies. When I take them off the press, they can weigh ‘em. Weren’t no touching up to do. But see they’re good- but after I left, they had to have somebody come in and touch them up. You know- to let it be regular- and see what I taken off the press, just like this piece of paper here, balled it up. When I get to off the press, it’s slick. Ain’t no wrinkles, or no nothing in it, no (?) or no nothing. So he begged me to come back. I said, “The only way I’ll come back, you stay your distance and I sure will stay mine.” I said, “Good evening and goodbye and that’s it.” So I went back. Cause it was a good job and he was paying good.
Interviewer: Oh, okay.
So I went on back. Mmmhm.
Interviewer: He didn’t mess with you…
No he didn’t. Nope. Rolled his eyes, I rolled mine right back at him keep on working. And one lady, we worked at, in that same era of depression. Course she worked more on shirts, she would do shirts. And so when a girl kept on picking on me, she said this, “You better leave her alone. Cause she don’t bother nobody. And just because she had a smile on her face,” said, “Honey she will cut your throat and suck your blood and never stop smiling.” Said, “You don’t know her. I know her.” Said, “She don’t bother nobody.” And said, “You better go and leave her alone because something bad going to happen to you you keep on messing with her.”
She said that she thinks- she bad. I said, “No baby, I’m not bad. I don’t like no who-shot job.” I said, “I do my work. I get through doing my work. I go home and take care of my babies.” I said, “I got three babies at home and if I do something to you, who gonna take care of my babies?”
My kids kept me from doing a whole lot of stuff. Taking off of people- a whole lot of stuff off of people that I wouldn’t take if I didn’t have them kids. Because people have said some hard things to me…and I walk off and cry. Because I think about my babies. If I kill somebody, go to jail, who gonna take care of my babies. And I told you when my kids got grown, I would tell them, I said, “Your momma went through a whole lot of stuff when she was little. Taking off of peoples.” I said, “I don’t have to do that no more.” I said, “I don’t have to do that no more. Because you’re all grown and all out on your own. But don’t y’all do like me. Y’all try to swallow your pride sometimes because I had to swallow mine.” I swallowed my pride so hard sometime it almost choked me. Keep from saying anything. Cause if the wrong thing would come out and it would cause somebody to have a fight, a fuss or whatever. I said, “Nope. I’ll (?). Goodbye.” I said, “ Cause I don’t play this.” I said, “Whatever you got on your mind, whatever you wanna do, you do that. But don’t do it around me and don’t do it to me, cause I don’t bother nobody.” And I didn’t.
23.55
Interviewer: So you ain’t never had to cut nobody?
No, never. Uh-uh. I had it hard when I was coming, when my kids was coming up. Cause I had taken a whole lots of stuff I wouldn’t have taken if it wasn’t for them. Cause I couldn’t stand for anybody to mistreat them or do nothing to them. And then I’m gonna do something to somebody, I said, “No, I can’t do that.”
Interviewer: So do you have any regrets?
Mmm?
Interviewer: You got any regrets about?
No, no. No baby. Mmmhm. No. No. And see none of my kids never was in jail, never was arrested, never been to no police oh- nobody but Arthur. And he was at a place, all night, juke joint, whatever it is. And they arrested everybody in the place, everybody. And he called me, “Mom.” I said, “What’s the matter?” “I’m in jail.” I said, “Goodbye.” “Mom, no no, no no mom. I wouldn’t done nothing. They put everybody in the place in jail.” And he had a gun, and by him- he had to put that gun in his shorts to keep from the police finding the gun on him and when he did come home, all in his legs and there was the scar up where he had the gun in there. I said, “What you walking so-“ He said, “Mom, I’m sore down there (?) all down there with his roll.” (laughs) (?) Going (?) I took going to (?) and see what happened to you?
Interviewer: What was he doing?
Nothing. See they raided the place and they taken everybody in there to jail. All the place, everybody. Because they told the place that they was selling dope in there but they wasn’t. They wasn’t. Mmmhm.
Interviewer: How do you know?
That’s what Arthur said. The police said they didn’t find nothing in there. Somebody had said they was selling dope in there. That’s when they raided the place. But he said, Arthur said, “Momma, they didn’t find nothing in there.” Some liquor in there that wasn’t supposed to be in there, that was all.
Interviewer: It was illegal for liquor?
They had some alcohol in there that wasn’t supposed to be in there. Hard stuff. Mmmhm. That wasn’t supposed to be in there. That’s the only thing that wasn’t supposed to be in there.
Interviewer: Like moonshine?
Yep. Mmmhm.
Interviewer: That’s funny. So how did you adjust? Was it hard adjusting moving from here. Moving from down south to the north?
No no. No no.
Interviewer: It wasn’t hard.
No no. It wasn’t hard. The only thing was I missed my mother and father. Mmmhm. That’s the only thing that was kind of hard. Only when I first moved up here.
Interviewer: Do you remember the race riots and stuff that they had up here?
Oh yeah. Oh yeah. I was coming from work when they started and I saw all the cars and the policemen and the fire and the smoke and stuff. And I said, “Lord have mercy, where in the world?” Didn’t know which way to go. And they was directing people how to go around while all the devilment was going on and that…they was setting houses on fire and robbing stores and clothes. People come out there furniture place with whole mattresses and things on their shoulders and TV’s and dress shaped arms, both arms full of clothes. Mhmm. They put whole lots of them in jail.
Interviewer: Oh my goodness.
Mmmhm. The boss said, “Don’t nobody come to work at least for three or four days. Don’t come out of that house for nothing.” Said, “We closed the laundry down. Don’t nobody come here to work, cause there’s too much going on.” Baby they- you talk about something rough baby, it was rough. Sure was.
Interviewer: So you stayed in the house?
Oh yeah. I sure did.
Interviewer: You tell the kids to stay in too?
Oh yeah.
Interviewer: They stayed in too.
Wasn’t no school- they closed all the schools down.
Interviewer: Did they? That is crazy?
That was rough baby, it sure was. Mmhmm, oh yeah.
28.38
Interviewer: Did you get in any trouble?
Oh no.
Interviewer: You said your kids never went to jail except Arthur.
That’s right. Oh yeah.
Interviewer: You didn’t get in no trouble at all?
Nope. Mmmhm. Nope. No no.
Interviewer: So what was your proudest moment in your life?
Hmmm? My proudest moment? Well, after my kids all got grown and got out on their own and everything. And they wasn’t in no kind’a trouble or nothing like that. I didn’t have to worry about them going to jail, none of them done- fighting and arguing, going round to the courthouse and all that stuff. So, knock on wood, I never had to go to court for neither one of them. I never had to go to jail for nobody- and I didn’t have to go to jail when Arthur was in jail. They let him come home. He came on home. I didn’t have to go down then.
Interviewer: Oh, you didn’t go get him?!
Nope. And see then after George, the one’s in prison now…he got in trouble and me and James went down there to see him. You couldn’t have nothing. You couldn’t even have a knife that long in your pocket.
Interviewer: As long as your pinky?
No fingernail clippers or nothing. I had a small knife. About like that-
Interviewer: Finger length, file length-
Uh huh. Like that. And he said, “Let me see your bag. Uh uh. You can’t carry this bag in there.” We had to take it, and James- we had to put our keys and all our bags over in the parking lot. To the man in the boot there, where they parked the cars- mmmhmmm…little old, little peephole about like that. That’s where I had to talk to George. Peep through there and talk to. Go through there and unlock the door and it (yells) behind me. I said, “Oh, God! Uh, uh.” I said, “Baby, grandmamma won’t be down here no more.” I can’t stand these doors be locked behind me and I can’t get out.
Interviewer: So they had you talking through a peephole. You couldn’t see him.
A peephole! A peephole!
Interviewer: Could you see him?
From here up. That’s all.
Interviewer: But that’s after you looked through the hole?
Uh, uh. From here up.
Interviewer: You had to look through the hole too?
It was about wide as this.
Interviewer: About a little hole like you looked through your door in?
No baby, it wasn’t that large…Just enough so you could see his eyes and his nose. Couldn’t even see his mouth.
Interviewer: Why?
It was just that short. And I…when he go in there and the door…Knows how to, steel doors, how they sound klapp! I said, “Oh God, no!” I said, “Uh uh baby.” And I said, “Baby, Grandmama won’t be down here no more until you get out of this hole.” And they had put him in a hole. He had did something he had no business doing and they had him in a hole down there. I said, “Uh, uh, no.”
Interviewer: What did he do?
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That boy’s mean. And he wrote- I hadn’t heard from him in about a month, I wrote three letters and then I’m told to stop. I’m told to-Sandy. And she said well momma, “George is in the hole again. One of the guards down there kicked him and he kicked him back. And he’s in the hole.” I know it’s somewhere I can’t hear from you-that’s where he’s at. So I wrote another letter last week, so I hope they let him have the letter you know, to read it.
Interviewer: Right.
Hmmhm. Yep.
Interviewer: So is your life? Has your life been different from what you had imagined?
Hmm??
Interviewer: Has your life turned out different from how you imagined when you were younger?
Oh yeah.
Interviewer: Turned out totally different.
Whole lot different.
Interviewer: What did you imagine your life was gonna be like?
Well about the kids being small and I had to take care of them and do this and that and the other. Well so far after they all got grown and out for their own road…my life got little better. I didn’t have all this headache you know. Trying to keep them in place and keep them with the clothes and all that stuff.
Like one lady, she’s at my church. I was noticing, see her but I didn’t know who she was. She said, “Daisy, c’mere.” I said, “Now what’d I done did now.” She said, I’m gunna talk to you, “I was staying across the street from you when you were staying on Edward and Lafayete. And you would come in from work. In about an hour all the kids clothes on the line you had washed them. In about another hour they all gone off the line and your kids get nice and clean. Going to school and everything. And said that, “Lots of women help with these kids and taking care of their mens and the babies go to school- raggly, dirty hair, ain’t combed and nothing.” “But you,” said ,“You kept your kids nice and clean but you wear the same thing all the time.”
I said, “Well, my kids didn’t have to come here. I brought them into this world, I suppose to take care of them. If anybody do without, let them do without.” If people don’t like the way I look, let them buy me something. So that’s…my kids come- beside the good master- my kids was all of my life. Mmmhm. Yep.
Interviewer: So what did you imagine your life would be like when you were younger?
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Well, I would. I always imagined myself to be nice and understanding, and try to keep myself up-to-date. Not in the gutter. Get up on the hill, not down in the gutter.
Interviewer: Right.
I tried to get up high. I want up high. I said nah- lots of people I looked at when I was young, they was they be looking the way be carrying themselves. I said, “Uh uh uh uh. I can’t do that. I’m gonna be better than that.” And so that’s what I was. I made up in my mind. I said, “I’m gonna take care of myself like my mother takin care of me when I was a kid at home. Kept me nice and clean and kept me up to date by different things.” See she wasn’t educated, but she could read and write.
Interviewer: Oh she could?
Oh yeah.
Interviewer: Really?
My daddy. He could read some things, but lots… he couldn’t read too much. He was the Deacon at the church and I would read the hymns off to him, and when I read em off to him a couple times, it’s in his head. He can remember it. And he would get up and sing. Give the- sing his hymns. And my daddy, talking about somebody could sing, my daddy could sing baby. Oh baby, sounds just like a harp. When he…and my daddy used to play a guitar when he was young.
Interviewer: Did he?
Mmmhm, Yep.
Interviewer: So your parents- you had good life….
Oh baby. I sure did. I sure did…I sure did. Yep. My life was sweet when I was at home with my mother and father and my brothers and my one sister.
Interviewer: So your boyfriend was nice then at first?
He was…for a whole year he just as nice as he could be, then after Jane was born he started acting stupid.
Interviewer: So he would just yell and fuss.
Yup. Fuss and arguing. Go on everything. Like that picture there behind you. I had a head a- a big head of hair. And if I have to say it, I wasn’t no ugly person and I would dress myself up and go to town or go to church with everyone. And everybody speak to me, “How are you doing sweetheart?” I said, “Fine, how are you?” If I speak to somebody. And me, I like the peoples at church. He said, “But how I see you smiling.” Said, “Do you ever get mad?” I said, “Oh yeah, I gets mad sometimes.” She said, “Well everytime I see you you got that smile on your face.” I said, “I got that from my mother because my mother smiled all the time.” She given me- she’s a lot like me, if I get angry you can’t tell it. Cause I never stop smiling.
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And my mother was the same way. She’s in the field picking cotton and a lady said something to her she didn’t like and my mother talked real fine. She said, “You don’t know who you fooling with. I’ll cut your throat and suck your blood.” And my daddy, you know he’s real tall. He just stepped over two or three rows and caught her by the hand. “C’mon Taisha, let’s go home.” Cause she’s gonna cut that woman’s throat. Uh huh, and she never stop smiling. Never stop smiling. To me, I don’t know. It just…when I smile I feel better. Uh huh. Yep.
Interviewer: That’s good.
Yep. Mmmhm. Like I did when Arthur wasn’t home. And I said, “Baby,” I said, “you must take them frowns out of your face and if you smile you would feel better.” I said, “Take them frowns out. Stop being so mean.” Awww, okay. I said, “I wish I had a camera to take your picture. See how beautiful you are when you smile.” I said, “When you smile, the world smiles with you. When you cry you cry alone.” Yup, so that’s why I try to carry yourself you know with a little. I be hurting in here but I still smile. Mmmhm. Yep.
Interviewer: Was your mother a slave?
Oh yeah.
Interviewer: She was?
Oh yeah. Yep.
Interviewer: Well how did she get free?
Huh?
Interviewer: How was she allowed to be free?
Well, ahh, she she just made up in her mind that she gonna, you know, be…like she would want her kids to be. Nice and kind and everything.
Interviewer: But who freed her? Who let her go?
The good master.
Interviewer: Oh, he let her go?
Yep. Yep.
Interviewer: Then she met your father. But he wasn’t a slave was he?
Nope. Oh no.
Interviewer: And he took care of her?
Oh yeah. Sure did. Mmmhm. Yep.
Interviewer: So your husband used to get mad when you speak to people in town?
Mmmhmm. When I go to church you know I speak to people-like that- when I be down-I go to town…I said, “Good morning, good evening. How you feel? How’s your family?” And like that. But you know, “Who is that? Where you know that?” I said, “I use to go to school with them.”
Interviewer: He was jealous.
He was. Real jealous. That’s a bad life to live. It sure is baby. Uh uh. Nope. I ain’t never been jealous of nobody.
Interviewer: So what was wrong with your second husband?
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Stupid. (laughs) He let his family run his life.
Interviewer: Uh huh.
Now, we bought a house over on Prairie. And ah, it had an attic and you could, use that attic, could be a living quarters. So I tell him. I said now we both be working. We take this, we put some stairs you know up there for you can go upstairs and we’ll have a sell a couple of either- two couples, young couple usually live up there, I said would help us with the bills and things. I don’t know about that. And his sister tell him the same thing and he said, “Okay. I’m gonna do that.” I said, “Seems mighty strange. I was telling you what to do about it and you said no. And after she said it, I said, then you let her go ahead on and…I said, “Now, to me, you’re letting her run your life. I suppose, we supposed to be at one, and it’s supposed to be across the fence. I’m going one way and you goin another way.” I said, “Now if you’re gonna let her run your life, I said, you go over there and stay with her.”
Interviewer: And that’s when you put him out.
Uh huh. Yep. I said if she gonna run your life, you go over there and stay with her.
Interviewer: He didn’t never try to come back?
Nope.
Interviewer: He didn’t?
Nope. Everything they tell him to do, he do. I tell him the same thing- he’s “I’ll think about it.” And then they said, “Okay.”
Interviewer: Then he did it.
I said baby, if you gonna play like that, I said, “Goodbye!” Cause I had no babies to cry, nothing like that. So I pretend by by myself. So I left. Mmhmm. Nope.
Interviewer: And he never came back?
Mmm.
Interviewer: What about your first husband. Did he try to come find you?
Oh oh, he came, mmm….oh in fifty. Fifty-six or fifty-seven. I was staying over on Ellenwood and Lafayette. He came to the house. Arthur had won a bike shooting marbles. He was a marble champion. He had won a bike shooting marbles. And he’s, he’s only sitting on the step, putting his-tossins and whistles tossing, ribbons and stuff on his bike. And he came in and, when he was little we all called him Sonny. And, “Hi sunny.” Arthur looked up and sayed, “Who is you?” He said, “I’m your daddy.” He said, “I ain’t got no daddy. I ain’t got nothing but a momma.” And he kept on working on his bike. Uh huh. And so, ahh, my boyfriend. He said, “Your husband….” I said, “My kids’ daddy is here in town. Not my husband. Cause we separated and divorced. I said, “My kid’s daddy is in town.” He said, “Well, I’m gonna be around to take you to show.” I said, “Listen. If you don’t come to see me while he’s here, don’t come to see me while he’s gone.” That’s uh…that is that. “If you can’t come to see me while he here, don’t come to see me when he go.”
Interviewer: What’d he say?
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He said, “Okay.”I said, “It’s no trouble at all, because’ we’re separated and divorced. He come here to see his kids. Not me.”
Interviewer: So what did your ex-husband say?
He said I looked stupid. With his mouth stuck out. I got dressed then he come by, he said, he should come in- I should come in. I should meet my kid’s daddy. “How are you Mr.Washington?” “Alright, how are you?” He said, “I’m fine.” And we went on, got in the car and we went on to the show. And we supposed to stay a month. He stayed two weeks. He had a attitude. “You ignored me when your friend come by. Ignored me and walk wherever about the house and blah blah…” I said, “Listen honey.” I said, “We separated and divorced. I don’t have nothing between me and you but these kids.” I said, “When I walked out of the house in Arkansas, that was it. I was through with you. Just be nice to you when I see you and that’s it.”
And he was there for my birthday. And you…oh no, you can’t remember. The perfume was in a black ball…just about. I said, everybody liked it-about as big as this.
Interviewer: As big as your chap stick.
The perfume, in a black ball. And it smelled real good. He bought that for my birthday. That was for my birthday. Just a little ball. I said, “Honey listen. I know what you can do with that. You can have it for yourself.” I’m not worth no more than no dollar with these three kids I done bore for you. I said, “Goodbye.”
Interviewer: Well what did he do?
He did nothing. I said, “You can have that. I don’t want it.” I said, “I don’t want it. You can have it.” And so he said, “Well, I guess I was in Tennessee a month. But I think I better get up and go back-I.” “Goodbye.” I said, “Goodbye.” “Now if you got an attitude because my friend came by to see me, you had womens when we were together. I didn’t have no boyfriend when we was going together because I had three babies.” Now what am I gonna do when that wedded man gone with three babies? Would I go to my momma’s house, James holding to my dress tail. Arthur- George holding to my belt and Arthur on my neck. NowI said, “Where the man going with three babies?” I said, “Honey, only thing that’s worrying me is how I’m gonna take care of my babies.” That’s the only man I want is my babies. I said, “In a way of speaking. I don’t hate- they all was born, but one day I’m gonna have to give them some money. That’s how bad I hate to give a man anything.”
(laughs)
Yeah, that’s mean. You can say whatever you wanna say, but that’s the way I feel. Now you don’t trust me, goodbye.
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Interviewer: So what did he do in in Arkansas?
We worked on a farm.
Interviewer: So he had a farm too?
No. He was living with his daddy. His daddy had a farm.
Interviewer: So you worked on the farm too, when you were pregnant?
Yeah.
Interviewer: You picked cotton when you were pregnant?
Hmmhm.
Interviewer: Was it hard?
Oh yeah. (laughter) Oh yeah. Sure was. But I wasn’t dragged a big sack like I did when I wasn’t pregnant. I had a small one.
Interviewer: So y’all would pick the cotton and sell it to?
Ah, ah, ah, a bailer. A bailer. A bail of cotton is. That’s a big wagon. A great big wagon. And ah, and ah, I’m trying to think how many pounds would be a bail. And my daddy…I’d be figuring up how much you know everything is. And I’, I’m figuring it out with a pen and a paper or something and my daddy, got it in his head, “That’s so much, so much and so much.” And when I get to figuring it up, it’s just like he said. He keep things in his head. I said I wish I could keep things in my head like that. My head’s so hard it wouldn’t even stay in there. (laughs)
Yup. And umm, and we’re picking cotton. And we had um… we he he raised peanuts you know and stuff like that. He’d go pick the peanuts up and he had a big, ummm… he would make a big, um, kind of like a tree. And we’d bring the peanuts out the field in the wagon and we’d take them, throw them up on that post so they can dry. And so when they dried we had to take them off there and pull them off the vine and in the bags-sacks.
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Interviewer: So, what did you do for fun?
Huh?
Interviewer: What did you do for fun?
Fun? We…when like you go to school, we went to school mmmm, four months out of the year. I believe. School happened four months, something like that, then we’d go back to the field and go to work.
Interviewer: So what did you do besides school and the field? What did you do for fun?
Nothing. Uh uh. Played with one of the- one of the- down the street, that place over there where the school’s over there…
Interviewer: That big old field?
Big old place like that we walk there and play ball. You know. Mmmhmm. Yep.
Interviewer: Is there anything else that you want to tell me that we didn’t talk about that you want to add to it?
Ahh, mmm? Like what?
Interviewer: Anything about your life that you wanna say. Have you got any advice for me or other young people?
Well, see I love young people that’s try to carry themselves in a nice way. But there are lots of people, not these young people, you can’t talk to them. You see when I’m at church, I’ve got about four or five godsons and goddaughters there. And they come up “Hi mom. How you doin? You alright?” I say, “Yes baby. I’m alright.” I say, “You bein good?” “Yes m’am. Yes m’am. I’m being good.” I’s like, “You don’t, I got a strap in my pocketbook. Like I used to do my kids when I would take them to church.” I’s like, “I got a strap, I’ll tear you up. You have (?) to me.”
But two of them is preachers. They always come. “Momma you alright.” I say, “Yeah, I’m allright.” I say, “I’m good now.” I say, “The good lord done called me to preach.” I say, “He did, you didn’t come on your own. Was it from him?’ They say, “Yes m’am. I tried to run from it. I kept going, I wasn’t gonna do this. I ain’t never gonna do this. I ain’t never gonna do that. He whupped me and I had to.” Like the preacher that drives the car, drives the Chase bus now. He said he run for three years. He said wasn’t gonna preach because he had already had three brothers-preachers. He said, “Oh lord, don’t put this on me because I don’t wanna be no preacher. I got three brothers already in my family.” And he said he got sick, couldn’t hold his job like he’s supposed to do. He couldn’t take care of his house like he’s supposed to do. He said he’s just going out to work backwards. He said one day the good lord said, “I told you what I want you to do, and as long as you’re doing now, you’re gonna suffer.” He said, “Well lord, here am I. I’ll go.” You talk about somebody who can sing baby, honey. He can sing. Oh lord yeah. He can sing and he can preach too. Oh yeah.
Interviewer: You just wanna. Wanna tell young people to take care of themselves…
Take care of themselves and be nice- don’t go out in the street doin’ this and doin’ that. Hold yourself up. Don’t go out in the streets, and don’t be bad- you know they get in trouble. Just like little Bobbie. She got two grandsons, they are in jail. And she’s a sweet person. Bobbie’s sweet. And I tell her, “Bobbie. You know what you got to do. You got to turn them over in the hands of the good lord.” I said, “When you go to the altar, leave ‘em there.” Now you go, like you take this paper and lay it up here on here and leave it there. If you take it off of here, it’s going someplace else. The wind’ll blow it away. Leave it at the altar I said and don’t bring it back with you. Now my baby here. I would worry about him and he would get a attitude and I would sit up and cry. I said, “Lord, take these tears away.” I said, let me pray for him that he would come to himself and stop being so mean. What it was, he was made with himself for being sick and he couldn’t control…I said, “Arthur.” I said, “What you do, I said, you just tell the lord to strengthen you and keep you in perfect peace and keep your mind stayed on him. See won’t you feel better. See won’t you have an attitude like you got now- that’s no good. With your condition.” I said, “You’re hurting yourself.”
So, I tell all these young people, “Whatever you do, do what you think is right.” Don’t go out in the streets wanting to be bad. You know and done this and done that. Going here and going places you got no business going. Quite naturally young people gonna go places, you know. They like I…they not just serving house like I was all day and all night. If they wanna go out, go out and have some nice fun.
Interviewer: Right.
Don’t go out and do kind of gambling, drinking, cussing, fighting, fussing, or...It’s no good. It’s be nice. I tells them like that all the time. That’s what I’m gonna tell all my grandkids when I talk to them. Be yourself. Don’t try to be nobody else. Be yourself. And that’s the lord’s strength in you and show you and tell you what you, he wants you to do. He’ll tell you- you keep on asking him, “What would you have me to do?”
Interviewer: Right.
It will come in your mind. What, what, do the right thing.
Now like you… I love you, because you is beautiful.
Interviewer: Aww, granny.
You is beautiful. I think- I talk about you all the time, when I talk to anybody I say, “I got one baby, I love her. (laughter) Because she try to hold herself together.”
Interviewer: I try.
Uh, huh.
Interviewer: Well thank you granny.
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